Looking for Local Music on Dayton Radio
November 18, 2009 by Bill Pote
Filed under Dayton Music
As a young twenty-something living in Chicagoland in the early 90’s, I was connected vicariously to the Chicago music scene through my friends and roommates whose bands played shows in just about every bar in the city. Many of us supported our friends by trekking into the city on most weekends, especially when they played the bigger and/or more popular venues like the Aragon Ballroom, Double Door and Metro. And I can remember the two radio stations that supported local music – Q101 and WXRT. Q101 even put out a compilation cd that featured my friends’ band, and to this day I listen to WXRT online. A bit older now with a family and now living in Dayton, I’m not at all connected to the music scene here and don’t get out much (though I’m proud to say I know Drexel Dave). But I’m aware that there is a local music scene here and I would like more of an opportunity to hear it.
Living in Dayton since 2001, I have long since figured out that the radio scene here is as generic as they come. The ultimate in generic radio would be Fly92.9 – a Jack FM format that is completely automated with no DJ’s (though I am told they have one). And absolutely no commercial radio station plays or promotes local music – not a single one. Anybody that listens to local commercial radio in Dayton would probably have no clue as to just how many original bands call Dayton home.
I make the commercial distinction because we do in fact have one station that does promote local talent – that would be WYSO 91.3, the public radio station out of Yellow Springs. DMM’s own Juliet Fromholt hosts the weekly Kaleidoscope on Wednesday evenings, which showcases local bands and features live performances. Rev Cool’s Around The Fringe show on Friday nights is an eclectic mix that includes promotion of the local scene. And Niki Dakota’s Excursions offers listeners music across the music spectrum every weekday. In a different genre, WDPR 88.1 (another public radio station and DMM media partner) plays classical music and promotes the local scene when it comes to the Dayton Philharmonic, Dayton Ballet, etc.
While WYSO is the one station I listen to on a regular basis, their music offerings are limited to certain days and/or hours of the day. What do you think about local radio? Is Dayton doomed to a future with no original commercial radio play or local music promotion? Do you think that a local Internet radio station that focused on the local scene could have legs? What say you?
(for a complete listing of Dayton radio stations, check out our Dayton Media page)
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I’m hearing rumblings over the past two or so years from friends around the country that local pirate stations have been appearing on the FM dial. Seems like there’s a resurgence due to the new digital, sterile corporate programming that has taken over the airwaves over the last decade or two. Here’s a great example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgg-FxTJT50
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Well Bill this topic really pains me. For a town this size to produce so many WORLD FAMOUS indie music artists you wouldn’t know it. I sure wish I could turn on the dial anytime and hear Guided By Voices, The Breeders,etc… With the exception of Hawthorn Heights who are major label acts and play on Clear Channel type stations, that is not a reality. Sure every Wednesday Juliet steps up to the plate. Maybe you’ll get 1 or 2 songs on Friday night from Rev. Cool and some weeks you might accidentally hear a local artist with Nikki Dakota. Juliet is invested, she has relationships within the music scene. Our community icon Rev. Cool has history and relationships but not a compatible format. Nikki, well, I think she could care less.
Dayton music is alive and well on the internet and is easier to come by on a radio dial in Europe than it is in Dayton. Just ask our transplanted rock stars like Dave Doughman. Ask our friend Drexel Dave what part of the world the fan mail comes from.
When I was in my early 20’s you could turn on 97.7 – 97X / WOXY who helped catapult many Dayton rock stars into the international arenas. Braniac, Enon, Guided By Voices, Heartless Bastards, The Breeders, The Amps. Without WOXY we wouldn’t have known much about our 1/4th. claim to The Pixies when Kim Deal was there. I mean, MY GOD!!!! This woman has had books written about her, songs written about her, documentaries by German filmmakers…..how many people on the streets of Dayton would even know her name? I think it’s all about what you are in to. Look at the funk bands that Dayton produced and gave to the world in the 1970’s….Ohio Players, Heatwave, Slave, Zapp. The cool thing is, these the majority of these people who made it BIG found Dayton good enough to call home as the most of them STILL live here. They could live anywhere, the tour all over the world, and they call Dayton home.
So, for a town that has contributed so much to modern music, it makes me ill that we can’t do more than an average of about 20 songs a week on a radio dial.
It also pains me that in a town with such a music history and so much to offer, we can’t have a venue to host just such shows. Just once I would like to see people drive from Cincy or C-bus to come HERE to see a national or international indie rock show. Even more, I wish I could get in my car and have a station like I grew up with (97.7) playing indie rock music. Nowhere on the dial can I find White Stripes or Ben Folds or Yo La Tengo or The Pixies….let alone a good Dayton band.
Only on Wed. from 8-11. Maybe a Friday from 10:45-11 and never during the day.
Now I will say that WWSU in the early early morning before 8:30 may have an occasional Joe Anderl song or a Swearing at Motoists, GBV or Shrug song…depending on who loaded the loop for the day.
I would give ALL my time to making just such a radio experience happen or just such a venue develop. No one wants to do the stuff and put up the buck. At least no one I know….if you are out there, we need to talk. : )
(I am a music lover, musician and director at Dayton Dirt Collective so please, join forces with me people. We need more Dayton music on the radio and bigger shows to draw people to our fantastic sonic city!)
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+6
GladGirl – that was an excellent comment; probably deserved its own post!
I love the idea of a pirate station, though it would take somebody willing to take that risk… and even then it would probably be short-lived.
Has anybody ever thought of an online streaming radio station that focuses exclusively on the local music scene (perhaps with some Cinci and Cbus bands thrown into the mix)? This obviously would not be as good as an actual FM frequency as people would have limited access (can’t exactly stream online audio in your car – yet). But people CAN download podcasts now where they can listen to them anywhere they can plug their iPod in. And while that is more work for the listener, I really think dedicated people would go through that extra work – especially if they felt they were part of a cause.
This could be relatively easy to launch, but to sustain it there would have to be a revenue stream so that the people making it happen could be compensated for their time. So the question is, are there enough people out there who would become streamers and podcast downloaders to make this attractive to advertisers? And if not, could the objective be to get the attention of the radio stations and convince at least one to do more local music play?
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The DDC (Nick Anderson mostly) put together a compilation of local and small music. This was put on cd’s that were duplicated through a home PC. very cheap and a labor of love from a true music supporter.
Point is, DIY has done this for decades. I intend to get a workshop that has equipment to make the process more efficient through my efforts in the DDC. Also to make this resource available to membership who I will encourage to make side deals with the public to increase exposure.
What I play isn’t legal to be broadcast generally. The only marketing I have faith in anymore is word of mouth. I think if we put the tools into the community then they will be used. The action is already happening just without any support from the establishment that is praying that creatives will solve their problems.
when they see a handmade product they know someone put some time in it. You can’t buy that at a store. Nick did a great job with the comp and I still listen to it. I want to enable everyone to do the same thing with less effort so it happens more. I have been working on it, any help is appreciated.
not to discredit broadcast media. I listen to 91.3 and when I lived in Beavercreek I listened to (and hung out at) WWSU. Still, nothing speaks to the soul like a labor of love from someone you admire.
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+1
Even though WOXY bolted for Austin, I still hear Shiv give a shout out to bands from Dayton, Cincy, and Columbus from time to time. Instead of a radio station, what about getting the music out to existing independent outlets under a Dayton brand of some sort? Clearly we have the artists if not the audience.
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What do we gotta do to get Shelly (GladGirl) to start posting here?
Great post Bill.I really like the podcast idea. I’m often busy throughout the day, but I download and listen to various podcasts quite often. A local podcast would be a wonderful offering.
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First of all, thanks for the shout-out!
Let me see if I can answer some of the questions Bill raised about streaming and podcasting options (maintaining both are part of my job at WYSO):
Regarding a local music streaming station – I’ve actually looked into this option several times over the past 5+ years, and unfortunately there are some issues. The cost of equipment, bandwith, server/hosting space is a given. The bigger issue in my mind, however, are the new federal regulations regarding reporting fees for online stations (that’s both terrestrial stations that stream their broadcasts and exclusively online stations like WOXY). New regulations with higher fees are actually just starting to be implemented after years of debate and a grace period to allow stations to prepare. I won’t get into my personal opinions about these fees, but they’re putting a big strain on a lot of smaller streaming operations.
Podcasting is definitely a more viable option. Again, there are costs with server space, bandwith, etc. There are also rules about how much of a song you can/can’t play without incurring reporting fees, however, if you were to stick with strictly local music where you could easily obtain artist/label permission, you could get around the reporting fees.
Unfortunately I’m too busy to take on a podcast on my own as I’m currently developing some new things for Kaleidoscope for 2010 (stay tuned!!). However, if anyone is interested in either of these topics and would like some help/advice or would just like to sit down and talk about what it takes to make something like this happen, please contact me!
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+2
I definately like the idea of a podcast. Streaming a broadcast can definately get costly over time but making podcasts available for download every week/other week/once a month, what have you, I could totally get into that. I know even doing that can get costly over time (you wouldn’t have to save ALL of the podcasts in a database) and if it became pretty popular and ended up using a lot of bandwidth… I can see an issue. But there might be ways to get around it if it’s just handled properly. Bands might be willing to pay a small fee to help get their name out there if it’s effective but more importantly, why not have an advertisement or two during the podcast? They sure do it on the radio, and they have leached into just about every video site on the internet, I think people could stomach a minute or two of sponsor adds for a 30-40 minute cast. Just a thought.
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Podcasts unfortunately don’t connect with real people- in real time. Good radio is an art- and a great marketing tool- unfortunately- corporate radio is clueless.
One of my old posts about WMMS in Cleveland- and how they “got it” has been a hub for the brand- it’s worth reading the 130+ comments: http://www.thenextwave.biz/tnw/?p=24
Reality: badly done radio has almost killed the format. Pandora does it better-
now, we could create a pandora channel- of local artists- and let someone else deal with the problems…
but- it won’t be the same as live. WYSO is still a great community asset- I just wish their signal was stronger.
It won’t be long before Clear Channel is divesting itself- but, by then- it may be too late.
The South Park Tavern is looking into live streaming- we’ll know more soon.
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Hello. Hello. Is this thing on????
Hello, Kyle…are you there? There needs to be a BuddhaDen Podcast??
or…Andy. Andy Ingram, Poptek Podcast???
For years I have talked with Mick Montgomery about co-hosting just such a project with me but neither of us really know where to start.
Anyone out there that wants to go with this, contact me. I would get married to this project, no joke.
So…..GladGirl Podcast,,,,,anyone willing to help me with the tech end, I WILL DO THIS.
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awww, Thanks Frank. : )
I just saw your post! That’s nice to hear. (blush)
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Sorry for the repeat posts but I just recalled a conversation I had with a well known Dayton investor.
He owns the property where the old studio for the former station “The River” resides. He left the booth and everything in tact. Maybe I need to give him a ringy-dingy and ask him if there’s an interest in helping us (mainly me and whoever else wants to come on board) to do something along the great ideas posted here. See, this is the kind of stuff I love, the stuff that keeps me up at night thinking and scheming, teehee.
Just think, a place where we could hear guest podcasters:
Don Thrasher
Mick Montgomery
Dale Walton
Kyle Melton
Andy Ingram
Brandon Hawk
even some homegrown comedy guest spots with Jim Bucher…..
okay, there goes my bedtime. Now I’m all worked up.
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+1
@Shelly-
I’ve forwarded this thread to Bill Daniels of Pizza Factory/South Park Tavern -
who I know you know well.
We’re working on streaming-
podcasting is easy- if you have the recordings-
But- maybe this is what the Dayton Creative Catalysts should work on- our own “Dayton original” streaming station- instead of building an “online hub” (no offense- but that’s what my site and this site do).
Let’s get our music out on itunes- let’s send the Dayton sound to the world-
Live from Dayton- it’s Original.
Anyone with us?
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Hi Shelly.
Shaine wants to do live shows broadcast from our website (southparktavern.com), and I’m doing the research right now. There are several options available and I think it’s very do-able. Email me at veritable@aol.com or give me a call.
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it seems like it would be easier to try to get a few shows throughout the week onto the Univ. of Dayton station. I just moved here from the triangle in NC and the college radio stations there help to foster a vibrant music scene. nc state’s radio station, wknc, did an especially good job with local music, with a local lunch program every weekday and an extended local show from 5-8pm on fridays. the friday show hosted local bands. and the station itself sponsored a local beer/local band night once a week and a larger festival once a year. unc and duke also had their own stations which did similar sorts of things (though not quite as much as wknc). anyway. it seems like if there was an engaged leader over there, they have the funding to make it happen.
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@David Esrati – regarding the “online hub” – DMM is actually the site that was adopted by updayton as the online hub to promote and grow. Hence the new format and several new contributors. Did you not get the memo?
@john b – a very good idea. I don’t know enough about either WSU or UD radio station other than I can’t get reception from either.
It seems we’ve gotten something stirred up here with this post, and we may see some action soon. Stay tuned… (pun intended)
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@ John B-
Since I’m probably the oldest of the Dayton natives on this thread I’ll speak a little into the UD station.
You nailed it in the last sentence of your comment with the term “engaged leader”.
UD does not have the interest in the Dayton music scene that an arts college like WSU or that of the WYSO / Antioch liberal arts culture does. BUT, I remember a day when it DID and it was WONDERFUL!
At the very tail end of the 70’s through about 1982 WVUD was a very popular station. They had a format that rivaled even WTUE at the time. Those were the 2 FM stations most listened to in Dayton by younger demographics. WVUD covered all the local music, promoted local shows, threw many local music events of their own and had a huge and loyal listener base. I credit the WVUD of 1979 for being part of who I am today because they were playing punk and new wave stuff that you couldn’t hear anywhere else outside of bigger markets. I don’t know who was heading up the station then but they were so progressive and so connected to the community, it was amazing.
I can remember like it was yesterday the first time I ever heard of the B52’s, it was on WVUD’s program “Splash of New Wave”. It was because of that experience I went searching for “new wave” music at the mecca of music in town, Dingleberries records in Centerville. That search led me to Devo, to Sex Pistols, to Buzzcocks…..it just exploded for me from there. The music was the reason I went to art school in Atlanta where I would spend my weekends in Athens, Ga. during the house show movement. That’s where I met REM and B52’s…and I was just some Baptist school rebel from Farmersville, Ohio up to that point. It changed my life and I can trace it back to WVUD.
Keep in mind there was less easy channels to get this kind of music, you had to hunt it down.
This was before MTV, 97X (WOXY), way before the internet, even before CD’s were on the market.
I had heard a rumor that the reason WVUD changed their “format” was because it was causing a stir with the Catholic leadership there. They felt it was too progressive and kind of pulled the plug on a great thing. They haven’t been the same since. What a shame. And I would say that twice over the last decade I have tried to make contact with the people heading up the station to see if I could volunteer there or something, just wanted to learn to run a board and do a show. I would have even paid to get involved but they had no interest.
I occasionally tune in to see if they are playing anything I like but it’s always bad.
The last good run they had was an entire summer of loops (2005) that were heavily indie driven.
That is how I discovered another artist I had never heard of (pre Myspace days) that changed my musical life, Sufjan Stevens. They sure are missing the mark but I don’t think they are interested.
I think they are more interested in political shows, student credit hours and Flyer coverage.
Andy Valeri (of Uncommon Sense TV – DATV, and Big Beef Records / Rev. Cool association) has had some recent involvement in the station. I will pick his brain and find out what the scoop is with UD.
Meanwhile. WWSU 106.9 is a good choice occasionally. It changes a lot with each student GM that comes through. I haven’t listened much since Juliets’ successor Johnathan Guilline graduated and is no longer GM. Don Thrasher is a WWSU alum broadcaster too. That was a good run as well.
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+2
WYSO is the only local station I care about since 97X left the airwaves. I listen to WYSO in the kitchen and in the car, mostly for news. I listen to woxy.com at work. I’m still pissed at them for moving from Cincy to trendy Austin, but they are what FM radio could be if a bunch of B-school hacks didn’t destroy it. I’d love to be able to hear and see some live local shows online especially since I don’t get out to shows much anymore.
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@Bill- missed the memo- congrats on being the hub.
@Shelly- well remember WVUD- and miss it. Thought it was much cooler than WTUE- and produced some awesome talent. UD would probably give it’s eyeteeth to have it back now- as a way of “giving back to the community”- dumb move.
They stream online btw- as does WWSU.
Working on the corporate sponsorship for hosting and bandwidth as we speak.
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A terrestrial radio station would be neat, but as already pointed out, I think the podcast option is a great idea. Hell, my parents (in their 60’s and often afraid of change/technology) listen to pandora on their iPhone in their car and as that evolves, streaming will be able to reach a lot of people.
If the tech resources are not too much of a far cry to get, (server access mainly) I think it would be rather easy to unionize podcast contributors to do seperate shows for daily/weekly/monthly broadcast. I would be all about it, myself. Promotion would likely be a breeze too!
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Aaron and I were discussing this earlier after I read the thread and I’m in line with him. Multiple podcasts featuring locals who know the music scene would be great, but what would be better would be to consolidate it all and have local music channels featuring music from around the area (Dayton, Cinci, Richmond, and Columbus all have thriving music scenes that very few people ever even come into contact with). It could be sorted by genre or area. I would love to be a part of this, as I know local music pretty well and have diverse tastes, but I don’t know anything about webcoding or setting up streaming audio. Anyone know if licensing would be an issue with more established music / musicians, I don’t want Bob Pollard knocking down my door.
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I meant to add that one of the virtues of podcasting or streaming is being able to repeat the content. It would be nice to have a streaming station that was playing local music “around the clock” even if it was a repeated show. I like listening to the shows on WYSO in my car, but I’ll be god damned if I am ever in the car when they are airing!
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[quote]The music was the reason I went to art school in Atlanta where I would spend my weekends in Athens, Ga. during the house show movement.[/quote]
…there is a neat little documentary on the Athens scene called “Athens Georgia Inside Out. Another interesting music scene documentary is “Towncraft”, more about the punk/alternative scene in Little Rock Arkansas, of all places.
Would be nice to see the local film crowd do some documentation of the Dayton scene, another way to get the word out.
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[quote]Dayton music is alive and well on the internet and is easier to come by on a radio dial in Europe than it is in Dayton. [/quote]
We aren’t talking about it, but another style of music made here that has out-of-town appreciation but is not too well-recognized locally is bluegrass and trad music, and maybe now country (via Larry Cordle’s songwriting).
I was introduced to the history of the Dayton area bluegrass scene on the radio…in the Bay Area. A station based in San Mateo did an entire afternoon of programming of bluegrass artists who were from the Dayton area, got started here, or who had a fan base here. You’d also here bands like the Hot Mud Family (no longer together) on the radio there on the various folky/trad shows in northern California. In recent times Anne and Phil Case have recieved some national attention, as have the Dry Branch Fire Squad (though I think that band has relocated out-of-state).
This area is pretty good for live music of various types.
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Jeremy – regarding your question about licensing, in a word, yes. Technically, you’re only allowed to use 30 seconds of music in a podcast before you have to pay fees to the SoundExchange/BMI/ASCAP, which would eventually go to the label, and maybe eventually go to the artist. Of course, if you got permission, you’re fine – which would be easily obtainable from folks on local labels or who are self-releasing. With someone like Pollard, since he’s not on a huge label, there’s a decent chance you could obtain written permission from the label, which would keep you covered. I’m not speaking for anyone or saying everyone will do this, but a lot of the smaller labels are more inclined to grant permission because you’re essentially helping them with marketing.
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Hey Juliet- how would we get permission from a bigger label like 4AD to get The Breeders on air?
And, on that note, what if you have some bootleg recordings, rehearsal sessions, house jams, etc…..what would happen, if anything, legally if someone was to play it publicly?
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^ I can tell you from experience in the restaurant/bar business, dealing with the “music mafia” (aka ASCAP, BMI and the NMPA) is a total pain. They are relentless in their pursuit of license fees for anybody playing music – live or recorded – that might include artists they represent (which is basically all published music). And they love to use the threat of lawsuits to scare people into paying those fees, no matter if the music being played is in fact independent and original.
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Shelly – here’s the problem with bootlegs: there are different kind of fees wrapped up in those lovely ASAP/BMI/SoundExhange/etc fees. One of which is a fee that allegedly goes to the songwriter. So even if you play a bootlegged/live version of a song, technically they can get you on that fee because the songwriter has to get paid.
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This is such a hot topic! In the less than a weeks time that this posted, I’ve been hated on twice for my opinion. (not here on the open forum)
This tells me several things:
1) People are passionate about it
2) Where there is controversy, change is SOON to come. Let’s keep things stirred up!
3) Reminds me that I should never break my own first rule about posting in forums.
I’ll go back to lurking now.
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On a parting note…..
to clarify a statement I made in my first post, Rev. Cool’s Around the Fringe is World Beat dance music. He does take a break during that show weekly to play some rock music, sometimes that includes a Dayton song or two. He does bring in bands and promoters to help the music community. He has done that with me for several years.
And my point about his historical contribution, like all of us, music is in our veins and we will do ANYTHING to get to play it or see it or feel it.
Almost 27 years now he has taken time at the end of his very stressful and busy job and on Friday nights while everyone’s getting ready to party and relax, he is there very road weary, thermos full of coffee from home, in the worst weather you can imagine, schlepping crates of music into the studio……with NO pay. NO pay. That is love. And back in the day, folks like Rev. and Andy Valeri, Steven Bognar….they were the guys pushing musicians along.
A new generation is appreciating him, and I take pride in being part of passing that down to younger music lovers at the DDC who did not know of him or his history and what it means to the community they enjoy today.
So, if we look at Rev. Cool of 27 years ago and the Juliet of today and ask thee BIG question all these talking heads gather to talk about…..what do we do to keep people from moving?
Well, ask people like Rev.. Ask people like Juliet.
Ask people who became famous and could live ANYWHERE and chose to live here. (Bob Pollard, the Deals, Hawthorne Heights, how about Dave Chappelle?)
ASK these people. Let’s not try to make Dayton anything other than what it is.
Celebrate it. Celebrate the ones who stay, stop fretting over the ones who might get away.
Okay-
I’m offline now. I don’t do well in forums. I love DDM.
GladGirl
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Hey guys, new here, pardon me if I’m a bit late.
As WUDR Flyer Radio’s current music director, local music is something we are gunning for and are trying hard to get. Over the past semester, we have completely changed our playlist, because the current staff realizes that we need local and independent music, and we are trying for the WOXY sound. I do think that we still do not have much local music yet, and it will be the biggest emphasis next semester to get music from local acts, as well as potentially have interviews with local bands and possibly have concerts at the amphitheater next door. It’s something we want to do, and something we hope next year’s staff will do as well (most of the staff is graduating next semester).
Phil – WUDR
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Thanks for chiming in here, Phil! That is great to hear that WUDR is looking to move toward more local/indie music! As for getting music, I’m very sure there are some folks that can help make that happen. I’ve heard a concern about WUDR in that the format changes with the revolving student staff, and while it might be good one year it can change the next. Anything you can speak to on that?
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Hey Bill! That is definitely true, and it is one of my personal biggest concerns. Right now most of the main staff (4 out of 6) is graduating in 2010, and I’ll be staying at UD one more semester. I’m undecided on continuing, but I might due to just needing continuity for the station, so we can prevent a sweeping change in sound.
-Phil
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Hey Phil,
Having been in your exact position several years ago at Wright State’s radio station and currently working at WYSO, if you ever want someone to brainstorm with/bounce ideas off, please feel free to contact me. I’m happy to offer whatever insight/advice I can!
Juliet
jfromholt@wyso.org
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+3